Remove this ad
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#21 [url]

Feb 7 12 3:02 PM

Damn, i just found out, that the sampletraks midi implementation covers also "song select"  !!!
So sending a midi message of $F3 xx (xx = 0 to 7) will switch the song !
Triggering the songs could be done sending:

$FC; Stop (maybe not needed)
$F3 07; Switch to song 8
$F2 00 00 ; Reset song position pointer to start
$FA; Start (maybe not needed)

With help of the song position pointer, also different measures could be maybe accessed directly ...

I have to try immediately.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#22 [url]

Feb 8 12 12:46 PM

Ok. I just used midiox to do some testing:
The midi sync (at least on my ST 224) seems completely ill ...
It will respond to midi start/stop ($FA, $FC) when Play (on the ST) was pressed beforehand (with or without loop/mark).

What is really confusing me is that song position pointer starts to work only after (F2 00 02), that is on measure 17:01:000 ...
It will goes up to the maximum bar length, which is defined for the song. ( I tested with song position F2 3F 25 (300:04:something) for a 300 bars long song.

It wont respond to a F2 00 00 (set position pointer to song start), but what is cool is, that, if the song position pointer is higher than the songs set bar length, it will jump to song start ;)

So sending F2 00 26 (301:00:000) will always for sure work to jump back to song start ;)

What doesn't work at all (as opposed to what the sampletrak manual states) is "song select" ($F3), which really dissappoints me.

Anyone can confirm this strange stuff ?





Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#23 [url]

Feb 22 12 12:53 AM

What i discovered today is, that the behaviour described in my last post just happens if Pad 1.1 is not assigned a sample ...

So Song Position Pointer ($F2) and Song Select ($F3) do in fact work. It seems that Song Select message works in the way that it always starts the new selected song from beginning.
So there is no need for a hardware mod to trigger the songs of the ST 224.
What i have done is hooked my Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus in front of the ST 224 and configuered it in that way that it maps specific "note on" messages to "Song Select" messages.
Now i can trigger songs from my controller keyboard and even record the trigger notes in my RS 7000.
So the setup is currently: Keyb->RS 7000->Event Proc->ST 224.
This works fine.


 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ellaguru

Master Guru

Posts: 519

#24 [url]

Feb 22 12 2:47 AM

What i discovered today is, that the behaviour described in my last post just happens if Pad 1.1 is not assigned a sample ...
So Song Position Pointer ($F2) and Song Select ($F3) do in fact work. It seems that Song Select message works in the way that it always starts the new selected song from beginning.
So there is no need for a hardware mod to trigger the songs of the ST 224.
What i have done is hooked my Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus in front of the ST 224 and configuered it in that way that it maps specific "note on" messages to "Song Select" messages.
Now i can trigger songs from my controller keyboard and even record the trigger notes in my RS 7000.
So the setup is currently: Keyb->RS 7000->Event Proc->ST 224.
This works fine.


 

-zap


what?!? hey wait, you can trigger songs with that?
the songs are in sync too?
could you explain this pleae?
i haven't the Midi Solution Unit, but i got an mc909, maybe this could works, who knows...
how to configure the triggering step by step please?

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#25 [url]

Feb 22 12 5:28 AM

In the case of the RS 7000, it can handle multiple songs. If i switch songs, the RS 7000 sends a "Song Select" midi message to its midi out(s). Therefore the midi configuration of the RS 7000 has to be set up to transmit the midi control message to the midi out where the ST224 is connected to.
Then, if in pattern mode, switching a style, or in song mode, switching song on the RS 7000, the song will also switch on the ST 224. This will work even when the ST 224 is not in SONG->Midi->Midi Mode.

The ST224 will then also react to "Song Position Pointer", which means that if i dial up a specific song position (eg. 4:00:000) on the RS 7000, the ST224 will also jump to that measure (This will also work while the st224 is in record mode ;))

The ST 224 will also respond to MTC (Midi Time Code) if set up correctly in the RS7000 midi config, overriding the initial BPM specified for a song and using the same tempo as the RS7000.
Therefore, the ST224 SONG->Midi->Midi Mode has to be switched on.

Sadly, the ST224 goes out of sync sooner or later if no additional "Song Position Pointer" or "Song Select" is sent (which the RS 7000 doesn't do if it loops a pattern e.g. jumps back from measure 1:00 to 4:04).

I will write some detail on using the Midi Solution Event Processor when i get a good workflow going ;)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#26 [url]

Feb 22 12 5:38 AM

>>to use the 909 as the master sync, go to Menu -> System -> Seq/MIDI, and make sure Sync Mode is set to Master and sync output on.

this should work.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ellaguru

Master Guru

Posts: 519

#27 [url]

Feb 22 12 8:43 AM

>>to use the 909 as the master sync, go to Menu -> System -> Seq/MIDI, and make sure Sync Mode is set to Master and sync output on.
this should work.


-zap

yeah, i know this, it's the general midi set up, thanks however.
i remember that with a software (ableton live) the st224 worked well in different songs positions (the song position pointer)...
what i don't figure (and i never made) is to send different midi control messages to different songs numbers on the st224...how practically is done? i have to re-read your preceeding posts...

edit
i never tried the sync out on ON...
...this can transmitts time clock (f8), start (fA),continue(fB),stop(fC),song position pointer(f2)...is sysex an option too?...

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#28 [url]

Feb 22 12 9:19 AM

>>different midi control messages to different songs numbers on the st224
You have to send F3 0x with x from 0 to 7 to switch songs

My RS7000 will not allow me to add such a command inside a sequence for example.
RS7000 will allow me to add sysex inside a sequence, but it always has to start with F7 and end with F0, so i can't switch the ST224s songs as i like.

Thats where the Midi Solutions thingie comes into play. It will let you convert any other midi message to "Song select" ;) or whatever else.
So i will just let it convert "Note On Channel 16 C3" to "Song Select 0", so everytime i hit a C3 on channel 16, the song 1 on the ST224 will restart ...
(I haven't tried, but will do l8r today)

Maybe using Midi Solutions Event Processor will also enable me to play ST24 samples itself in trigger mode (by filtering the Note Off Events) and simulate velocity.

BTW: i soldered a switch to the ST224 to permanently enable loop mark, and it works fine ;) But i couldn't find any easy spots that I would recommend to anyone without good experience or lots of courage ;)


Quote    Reply   
avatar

ellaguru

Master Guru

Posts: 519

#30 [url]

Feb 22 12 5:26 PM

that's cool
how do you like the 2080? i got a 1080.
i still didn't tried the mc909 with the st224 to switch songs (the song's pads are notes too?-sorry for the noob question)

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#31 [url]

Feb 23 12 4:52 AM



how do you like the 2080?

-ellaguru

3 EFX ! and better editiable for just 60 bucks more tha the 1080 ... sound wise exactly the same.

  (the song's pads are notes too?-sorry for the noob question)

-ellaguru


No. It just works that way with the Midi Solutions thing inbetween.

Quote    Reply   

#32 [url]

Feb 23 12 5:19 AM


This is great progress, Zap. I'll try some of this MIDI experimentation over the weekend. Ella, keep me updated with your progress!

Disciple of the boombap.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ellaguru

Master Guru

Posts: 519

#34 [url]

Feb 23 12 9:45 AM


3 EFX ! and better editiable for just 60 bucks more tha the 1080 ... sound wise exactly the same.

-zap


damn zap! maybe i'll sell my 1080 to buy a best editable machine: the 1080 sounds great but when you have to edit then headeache begins...fortunatelly as i said i've got also the mc909 wich (aprt the fact that has lot of sound coming from the JV series) makes me understood how to tweak/create patches/tones and new sounds (also for the JV1080 complicated -not in it self- scheme...)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#35 [url]

Feb 27 12 6:13 AM

does the mc909 have the same voice architecture than the jv 1080/2080 ? can you completely edit the voices ? does it sound the same ?

I have also jv1010, wich has same architecture, but to my ears sounds even more transparent. You can compensate on JV1080/2080 by adding a bit more highs, but even then the jv 1010 sounds more hifi to me (nothing that you would hear in a mix, but on some patches i can hear more details/vitality with my headphones).

With JV2080/JV1010 you also get some ControlChange Parameters that the JV1080 doesn't have. (Cutoff/Reso, Attack/Release, Chorus/Reverb Level, Tone1-4 Level if i recal correct)

What is best about all roland jv is the fx and the nice programming. The sounds are nothing without 'em.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ellaguru

Master Guru

Posts: 519

#36 [url]

Feb 27 12 7:34 AM

well, the mc909 is a sort of JV (in reality the JVs sound a little more "pro")with an amazing "roland groovebox style" 16 tracks sequencer, a nice sampler and a very useful mixer section. imagine an mc505 with better sounds, most tracks more and a sampler and you're near. it has also a big cool screen so most of the times you don't have to turn on the pc. it has sensitive pads too.
the internal sounds and the external samples are treated as patches befoer you use them. after that proces you can tweak/record the changes many time as you need. you have 4 tones to create sounds: you can mix with internal tones and external samples (great!!).
the 4 tone part architecture/concept is very similar to the JVs style (tone switch/ton select etc), but here you SEE everything you do.
it has, as for the mc505, lots of tweakable function with faders/buttons/knobs for live and creative aims.
also a turntable pitch/bpm big fader for djing tricks is here (as on the mc307).
you can apply 2fx simultaneously (plus comp+rev and a master section apart)

at the end i can say that the editing voices on the mc909 is similar to the JVs, but until now i didn't reached the beauty of the 1080 sounds with my own editing...


another difference is that the JV are synths , the mc909 is not...

Quote    Reply   

#37 [url]

Aug 17 12 4:42 PM

Hi, just on the question of Song Position Pointers, how do you write the code for them - I know it starts with F2 but how do you figure out the rest in relation to bars, beats & ticks?? I'm lost....

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#38 [url]

Aug 22 12 6:35 AM

SPP is a bit complicated to generate ony your own ... normally, your sequencer tool does this for you.

http://www.recordingblogs.com/sa/Wiki/tabid/88/Default.aspx?topic=MIDI+Song+Position+Pointer+message


The following is an example of a MIDI song position pointer message.

0xF2 0x00 0x08
The status byte 0xF2 shows that this is a song position pointer message. 0x00 and 0x08 have the binary representations 00000000 and 00001000 and so they form the 14-bit value 00000000001000, which is 8 decimal. 8 sixteenth notes is 2 quarter notes, but since the first quarter note occurs at beat zero, this message will prompt the MIDI device to cue to the third quarter note at beat 2.

Quote    Reply   

#39 [url]

Aug 29 12 6:50 AM

Hi Zap, thanks a million for the info, yeah like you say it seems pretty complicated, at least to my un-mathematical eyes.... I was messing around in Reaper trying to send SPP to my SampleTrak and worked out that in Reaper at least, the first 0 = 1/4th, second 0 = 1/16th, third 0 = 16 bars??, fourth 0 = 8 bars...dunno how this tallies with the full values you've set out above though....must be a simplified coding in Reaper I suppose. Anyway, thanks again for the info :)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

zap

224 padawan

Posts: 29

#40 [url]

Apr 1 15 3:55 PM

Sampletrak midi sync bug

As i confirmed on my own two sampletraks now, and from different other posts, the sampletrak has a severe midi bug on syncing to external clock.
It will occasionally skip a bit off at a undeterminable time. This might be right at the beginning or sooner or later while playing to external clock.

But the sampletrak respond to MIDI Start/Stop/Continue even on midi set to internal ! With midi sync set to internal the timing is always rock solid.
It will just not adjust its BPM to the master.

So, what I do to get my Sampletrak running perfectly in sync with my RS 7000 ? I leave MIDI Sync on Sampletrak on internal, and simply put all sampletrak songs to the same bpm as the RS 7000.

So hitting the play button on the RS 7000, the sampletrak will start playing the selected pattern(=song).
But the sampletrak has to be retriggered each loop, if not, it will go out of sync after a period of time. Also, the sampletrak will simply stop after playing its pattern once (unless you also pressed loop/mark+play beforehand).

Since the RS7000 will not send any MIDI Start/Continue on relooping, for retriggering the sampletrak i send a MIDI Song Select to the sampletrak at each beginning of a pattern. With that also a different pattern(=song) on the sampletrak can be switched synchronously each loop.

Since the RS7000 can not support MIDI Song Select events in its event list, i use the MIDI Solutions Event Processor to create this event from simple note events.

If anyone has questions, i can explain in more detail.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help